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http://www.bluecrimson.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1196282384/
http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=1468.0
Hell, the entire Ticalc.org vs Ti-files.org mess started in the #calc-ti channel and frankly, I wasn't going to join IRC just to find out how big a Dickhead Bryan Rabeler was today or if Alex Highsmith "Banged his girlfriend" today. I just didn't care. In fact, it's one of the reason's I affiliated with calc.org back then because they didn't care either.
For April Fool's Day in 1998, ticalc.org posted that they were shutting down because they couldn't compete with TI-Files.
"The inevitable has happened. ticalc.org is forced to shut down. Due to our inability to compete with the far superior (in the ways of contents, design, services and availability) TI-Philes, we cannot continue. We thank all our users for the time that has been. This site is shutting down as of the end of April."
(Taken from Bryan Rabeler post in mailing list)
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/oldmail/assembly-83/1998_April/msg00031.html
Just in case there are some people still left in the dark, ticalc.org is
not shutting down at the end of April. The news announcement on
ticalc.org for April 1st was indeed an April Fool's joke. If you reload
ticalc.org, you will see that announcement gone and a new one in it's
place. Over the next couple weeks, we expect to implement a few new
services at ticalc.org. Stay tuned…
http://web.archive.org/web/20010406062158/http://psycho.calc.org/log/log32.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010406062158/http://psycho.calc.org/log/log33.html
Log 32: The Art of War
I have been observing closely the arguments between our two main rivals, SiCoDe Software and Basicoderz. As you may remember, Basicoderz was basically a splinter group formed from disgruntled ex-SiCoDe staff who wanted their own named parking spaces, and believed there was no competition in the TI Community. With top-class programs being released almost weekly by groups such as the TCPA (and not to mention PsychoCorp), where exactly they got that idea from is still somewhat of a mystery… anyway, I digress - I was observing the arguments when they took a turn for the worse…
David Hall, as usual, started it. Evidently fed up with the frequent but clumsy attempts of Douglas O'Brien to insult SiCoDe, he posted the following message on Basicoderz' webboard.
I've been reading this and it seems that Basicoderz try to compete with SiCoDe in every thing they say. They're always making "snide" comments (made funny by the poor spelling, grammar and misinterpretations) about SiCoDe, and generally acting in an unprofessional, immature manner. Grow up Basicoderz. The reason why SiCoDe was a success is BECAUSE we ALWAYS acted professionally. You're acting like a bunch of immature teenagers, but then again, maybe you can't help it… Good luck trying to beat Jihad. It'll blow you away…
Er… yes. The uproar was immense. "ROTFL" replied Tim Parkin, showing his legendary wit and ability to shorten any sentence into an almost-illegible series of grammatical errors and/or abbreviations. Other replies were more candid. "I reckon you're both as bad as each other" commented James Pascal, a well-known critic of SiCoDe and Basicoderz. "Bleh" said Nick D, when we asked for his wise and profound opinion. And that was… er… it. But I'm sure it'll get better soon…
Log 33: Tactical Assault
*Sigh*. I'm not sure why I need to devote valuable "Ken Ego Time" to writing about inferior groups such as SiCoDe and Basicoderz, but it seems they both weren't too happy with my last log and so want either things either cleared up or my head on a pike. Well, I happen to like my head where it is, and as I have many many security guards I don't need to pay any attention to your threats. So I'm going to continue from where I left off.
David's post sparked a wonderfully funny response from a variety of people. "PROFESSIONAL!" stormed "BJ Leggeri" in response to David's claim that SiCoDe "ALWAYS acted professionally". "I waited for three years for you to reply to my application for membership!". It is still too early to tell how David's explanation of email server problems at his ISP will go down. Even funnier was the response from Tim Parkin, who took to typing in capital letters - presumably to make his arguments sound more persuasive. Unfortunately the ploy didn't quite work, and he merely sounded like an immature 14 year old - which perhaps is understandable.
Also, it seems there are hidden depths to the conflict, beyond the original reasons of a lack of named car park spaces at SiCoDe's HQ (if they have one). Brandon Green, who's programming prowess must have impressed the whole TI Community with Nibbles Arcade, appears to be a double-agent for both SiCoDe and Basicoderz. Quite what he hopes to achieve from this is still a matter of intense "discussion" between SiCoDe's Max Seckel and himself, and we're confident that Brandon will explain it to us any day now.
All through this, poor Jeff Ruud, founder of Basicoderz, desperately tries to calm everything down. "When I look at Basicoderz, I don't see SiCoDe" he proclaims proudly. I think that perhaps he needs glasses, as I can definately see it in the middle there. David Hall replies "War2 is the biggest pile of s**t I have ever had the misfortune of trying to play on my TI-83" for reasons as yet unclear. Quite.
The conflict also appears to have spread to subjects above and beyond the original problems. MegaHelp's Steve Rivas points out that Basicoderz is a stupid name anyway, and also besides MegaHelp has a bigger site, and is immediately set upon by the rabid dogs. Actually, the Pentagon are notable by their absence from this particular conflict, but I'm sure they're there in spirit. Some other people such as Kevtiva's Bob Maresh and Cahal Technology Corporation's Sherman Cahal decided to take the voice of reason, and remain neutral. SiCoDe's David Hall, as ever, took a completely different approach and replied with "immature" to just about everything Basicoderz staff said. The scary thing is it was working, to some extent at least.
Myself? I just began to cheat by inflaming opinions via my log here at PsychoCorp. Any why not? Everyone else is enjoying themselves making absurd allegations - why can't I?
ticalc.org: Surveys
8 Nov 1998 Site Wars
1. What calculator site do you prefer?
ticalc.org 94 70.7% ++++++++++++++
TI-Files 10 7.5% +
Dimension-TI 10 7.5% +
I have no preference. 16 12.0% ++
Other 3 2.3%
Total 133
2. What do you like most about ticalc.org?
News System / Commenting 24 18.5% +++
File Archive Size 23 17.7% +++
File Updating Speed 22 16.9% +++
Fileinfo pages 4 3.1%
Reviews 1 0.8%
Services (Buy & Sell / Upcoming Programs) 4 3.1%
Surveys 2 1.5%
Mailing Lists & Archives 10 7.7% +
Features 3 2.3%
Professional Atmosphere 34 26.2% +++++
Newsletter 0 0.0%
Other 3 2.3%
Total 130
3. What do you like most about TI-Files?
Large Archives 19 16.1% +++
PUDs 17 14.4% ++
Screenshots 17 14.4% ++
Programming Columns 8 6.8% +
High Scores 7 5.9% +
Friendly Atmosphere 17 14.4% ++
Reviews 4 3.4%
IRC Information 3 2.5%
Polls 8 6.8% +
Other 18 15.3% +++
Total 118
4. Do you think competition is best for the calculator community?
Yes 95 73.6% ++++++++++++++
No 34 26.4% +++++
Total 129
5. Do you think ticalc.org and TI-Files should cooperate?
Yes 87 63.5% ++++++++++++
No 50 36.5% +++++++
Total 137
6. If the opportunity presented itself, would you like to be on the ticalc.org?
Yes 104 75.4% +++++++++++++++
No 34 24.6% ++++
Total 138
7. If the opportunity presented itself, would you like to be on the TI-Files staff?
Yes 53 39.6% +++++++
No 81 60.4% ++++++++++++
Total 134
Messages containing "first comment" boasts, requests for game ports, or criticisms of "newsworthiness" will generally be deleted.
A few things, the first of which is the bit under guidelines that says: "Constructive and relevant comments only; no flames. Especially no posts relating to web site competition". Ya really should read these kinds of things before posting. Moreover, arguing between the two sites is completely pointless. Isn't the point of the two pages to serve the ti community. You could be working to help the community instead of constantly accusing various people (and sites) of various things. Go write a program, or make a page, or do something productive, instead of arguing and fighting.
Thanks (and sorry for being a bit harsh),
-Dan E
Listen carefully: NO COMMENTS about web site competition, please. If you get something out of this site, visit it as often as you like. If you get something out of other TI sites, visit them, too. We aren't interested in getting hits for the sake of egos, but we do use them as an indication of how well we're accomplishing our goals.
Besides, as far as I know, other sites don't use the same web stats methods we use, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
ticalc_chris
I noticed the following text was placed on the Ti-Philes web page:
Well, it seems that the ticalc.org crew has once again taken over
#TI-Files. Oh well, it seems that this is just standard procedure now.
This won't affect how this site
is just updated — we just thought you might like to know about the
relative maturity levels of the two sites.
I would just like to point out that ticalc.org in no way took over your
#ti-files channel. I know for a fact that some people that may like to
visit ticalc.org took it over, but no ticalc.org staff member took it
over. So please stop blaming the site itself for your problems.
Thanks.
—
Bryan Rabeler
gro.clacit|relebarb#gro.clacit|relebarb
I recently was looking at the documentation for a game called Penguins, a TI-86 assembly game. You can find it on ticalc.org. Some of the text was rather disturbing. The game is written by Bill Nagel, who happens to be a member of the Ti-Files. Here is the part that I feel is inappropriate (the second paragraph):
You can add Penguins to your page under the following condition, Your page must have a link to: http://ti-files.home.ml.org
If you play Penguins, you shouldn't go to this site because they copy everything from The TI-Files: http://www.ticalc.org
This does not belong in the documentation for a game. I am sure most other TI users would agree. The purpose of this message is not a flame and I do not want to start/continue a war. I would just like this immaturity to come to a stop.
Note: for a simplified introduction to IRC, and an explanation of how you
can get on IRC yourself, skip down to the bottom of this message. Skip down
further for a brief description of IRC bots.
*
For a long time, EFnet #calc-ti has been the primary center for TI
calculator discussion on Internet Relay Chat (IRC). It was founded early in
'96 primarily by two people, known as "perki" and "Intel" on IRC. As time
went on, more and more people began to frequent #calc-ti. At this point in
time there are dozens of people who visit the channel every day.
During its lifetime, #calc-ti has gone through many shifts in
administration. Originally the channel was held by bots set up by its
founders. They chose which people should be given ops. Some ops contributed
their own bots to the channel. As the channel grew, it became necessary to
improve its organization; the eggdrop bots were joined into a sharebot
network. All the people running the bots which were accepted into the
network were given "owner" status. I will also refer to this as
"administrator" status.
It takes a certain amount of responsibility to be a good IRC bot
administrator. It is a cooperative effort. One should be able to work well
with the other owners, and to use objective judgment in choosing who should
be given ops, given "owner" status, and in the worst cases, who should be
deopped, banned, or de-ownered. Bot administrators must also maintain the
bots when it is necessary to do so, making sure that they run smoothly in
tandem.
Unfortunately, one particular owner demonstrated repeatedly that he did not
have what it takes to be a responsible bot administrator. He often made
decisions based largely on spur-of-the-moment anger, without consulting
with the other bot administrators first. Decisions such as banning people
because he didn't like them, even when they did not disrupt the channel or
offend any other people in any way. Decisions such as opping and deopping
people when he damn well felt like it, without talking to the other
administrators.
He was one of the original founders of #calc-ti. He is known by the
nickname "Intel".
Eventually the other administrators decided that they needed to do
something about this. They revoked Intel's owner status, as well as his
ops. In response, he took over the channel by force. After a while the
situation became such that he was given back his privileges: a second
chance. But, this cycle repeated several times; Intel was given several
chances to change, and yet it never lasted.
Recently, establishing the most recent cycle, Intel was given ops, but no
owners. This situation lasted for a surprisingly long time; it seemed that
#calc-ti might have finally become stable, as Intel made no attempts to
take over the channel. Recently however, Intel, feeling that he now could
do anything he wanted with his ops, went on doing the same old rash things
that he did before, like banning people on spur-of-the-moment anger.
Upon a unanimous decision (excluding one owner who is on summer vacation),
Intel's ops were removed, this time for good. He promptly proceeded to take
over the channel, using an previously overlooked security hole in one of
the bots. We have since plugged up this hole.
Apparently Intel feels that, since he participated in the founding of
#calc-ti, he should have absolute power on the channel. It seems now that
no matter how many times we deop him, reop him, de-owner him, re-owner him,
etc., he will continue to aim towards gaining what he feels he rightfully
deserves; namely, absolutely control of the #calc-ti channel on EFnet.
Due to several reasons, we have decided to permanently move to #ticalc.
#calc-ti will no longer be supported by our bots; they will no longer
attempt even to join the channel. From now on, #ticalc will be the primary
IRC channel for TI calculator discussion.
* Simplified introduction to IRC *
Note: this description of IRC is simplified. It provides enough information
to get started and to have a general idea what is going on. As you spend
more time on IRC, you will learn about the many details and
subtleties which have been omitted from this introduction.
IRC is a protocol used to allow people from all over the world to talk to
each other on the Internet. In general, there are two ways in which this is
done. One way is for two people to send messages back and forth between
each other, effectively establishing a two-way private chat.
The other way is to join what are called "channels". On a channel, any
number of people may gather and chat, and everyone on the channel will be
able to see what the others are saying and join in the discussion. Channels
are dynamic, and exist only when people are inside them. Anyone may create
a previously nonexistent channel simply by joining it; but once the last
person leaves the channel, it vanishes from existence.
On IRC, every channel has two types of users: "ops" and "non-ops". The
first person to join (and therefore create) a channel is automatically
opped. Ops are specific to each channel; a user may be an op in one
channel, and a non-op in another. Being an op in a channel allows a user to
have almost unlimited power in that channel; ops can op and deop others,
kick people from the channel, and ban people from the channel so
that they cannot return.
To access #ticalc, you need an Internet account and an IRC client. You may
then connect to any EFnet IRC server, and /join #ticalc.
The most popular IRC client for Windows is mIRC. For information and
downloading, see http://www.mirc.co.uk/.
For other clients and IRC information, try http://www.cdrom.com/pub/irc/.
Here are a few EFnet IRC servers:
irc.cris.com
irc2.blackened.com
irc.gate.net
irc.ionet.net
irc.ced.chalmers.se
irc.df.lth.se
irc.homelien.no
irc.ec-lille.fr
efnet.sgic.fi
* A brief description of IRC bots *
Due to the nature of IRC, there are measures which need to be taken to
protect a permanent channel. Specifically, bots are placed in the channel.
Bots (short for "robots"), are automated IRC "users" which run in the
background, opping registered ops and banning those from the channel who
are permanently banned.
The most popular bot is the "eggdrop" bot, written by Robey Pointer and now
being maintained by others. All of the bots on #ticalc are eggdrop bots.
They are linked in a sharebot network. This means that they share their
userlists. The userlist is a list containing a profile for each recognized
user. The profiles include flags indicating whether or not each user is
opped, what hostmasks they have, etc.
David Ellsworth
the ticalc.org project
gro.clacit|lledivad#gro.clacit|lledivad
Nearly everything these days is a cop-off of ticalc.org :-D IMHO if you
have a TI webpage, you either need to A) do the HTML from scratch, B)
actually copy the files to your site and not link to ticalc.org.. ie have
some courtesy and show respect for the hard work of all the webmasters at
ticalc.org.
I agree. In addition, ti-files has been a total cop-off of ticalc.org, a
much BETTER www site. ti-files only sprung up when ticalc.org went down.
now that ticalc.org has coem back they are scrambeling to keep support up,
and it shows.
David Ellsworth wrote:
>
> Due to several reasons, we have decided to permanently move to #ticalc.
> #calc-ti will no longer be supported by our bots; they will no longer
> attempt even to join the channel. From now on, #ticalc will be the primary
> IRC channel for TI calculator discussion.
What are the others IRC Channels ? Did they move ? What are they
specifications ?
Thanx Florent ZARA
rf.tenretni-bulc|araz#rf.tenretni-bulc|araz
There is also a channel called #ti-files which contains discussion regarding the
Ti-Files website. #ticalc is the main TI calculator IRC channel though. They
are both on the EFNet IRC Network.
Ok, let me clear this one up really fast. I did take over the #ti-files
IRC channel a few times. That happened at least 15 months ago. I have
since learned my lesson and haven't done any obnoxious behavior on IRC
since then. The "bad atmosphere" that you refer to here is not caused
by the ticalc.org members. Most people on IRC know that #ti is the
place where most supporters of ticalc.org hang out. Well, I was the
only active member of the staff that hung out there. I tried to be as
kind as I could to the newbies. However, some of the other people,
mostly channel operators, were not. They would, and still do, ban newbies
if they ask stupid questions or appear to be annoying. These incidents
should not be blamed on me.